Friends who buy purebreds

topic posted Thu, July 26, 2007 - 5:28 PM by  Constance
I have many, many friends who either breed animals or insist only on buying purebred animals. Usually, they say they just HAVE to have that perfect certain quality that only that perfect certain breed has...
I know it's crap, and I have, mostly kindly I think, told them so. I have tried to get them to understand the impact of what they are doing. Alas, I will NOT fight with them, or preach to them, so I feel like they find it very easy to write me off as some bleeding heart nut.
Hell, ALL their OTHER friends have fancy dogs...
SO, I was wondering...is there any literature out there that specifically targets the problems and impact of supporting animal breeders? Of buying pets as symbols of money or prestige? If so, I would buy some and mail it to them...monthly!
If they saw the pictures of euthanized animals, maybe they would eventually care.
If they realized it's not only ME that thinks they are being self centered and arrogant, and cruel, maybe at least just ONE of them might change.(?)
posted by:
Constance
St. Louis
  • Unsu...
     

    Re: Friends who buy purebreds

    Thu, July 26, 2007 - 5:34 PM
    In CA they are trying to pass the mandatory "fixing" law - and only licensed people will be able to breed. To me, that seems like a set-up for kind of what you are talking about with the bred-to-death dogs.
    I'm for fixing your pet but laws and licenses seem like Big Doggy Brother.
    • Unsu...
       

      Re: Friends who buy purebreds

      Thu, July 26, 2007 - 5:35 PM
      BTW - I have two rescue mutts and they are better than any nervous little purse dog!
      • Mandatory S&N

        Thu, July 26, 2007 - 9:35 PM
        Sorry, I disagree. “Bred to death dogs” are here right now. So are backyard breeders. So are people who are to lazy to fix their dogs and "too busy" to fix their fences. So are people who just like the idea of having a litter of pups to give away like party favors. So are people who think their pet "wants to know the joy of motherhood." Mandatory spay and neuter laws can help all of them, maybe less of the first, but if those breeders have to pay up the fee every year, on every dog, honest ones they will have to realize there's less profit to be had in treating a dog like a brood mare. The rest of them can be helped with stricter enforcement of animal cruelty laws.

        If you doubt this, take a poll of everyone you know who is involved in killing dogs because there are too many of them. Ask them what they think of these laws. All the ones I know are strongly in favor of them. If you don't already know any, they shouldn't be too hard for you to find. We kill over 4 million dogs in this country every year.

        As for puppy mills:

        www.prisonersofgreed.com
        www.puppymillrescue.com
      • Re: Friends who buy purebreds

        Thu, July 26, 2007 - 9:39 PM
        • Unsu...
           

          Re: Friends who buy purebreds

          Fri, July 27, 2007 - 2:42 AM
          Who are you disagreeing with? I said I'm for fixing.
          I think it's just a shame that there has to be a law to make people follow common sense and avoid all the terrible things you listed.
          Also, just because someone has a license to breed dogs doesn't mean they are going to treat them any better than they would anyway.
          Just because someone has a drivers license doesn't mean they are a great driver.
          Just because someone has a cosmetology license doesn't mean they'll give you a great haircut!

          I'm not trying to be cross or antagonistic. I think we are all in agreement here :)
          • Re: Friends who buy purebreds

            Fri, July 27, 2007 - 9:18 AM
            >>>I think it's just a shame that there has to be a law to make people follow common sense and avoid all the terrible things you listed. <<<

            Welcome to planet earth :P people are too selfish, greedy, and moronic to do it on their own.
          • Re: Friends who buy purebreds

            Fri, July 27, 2007 - 9:29 AM
            "To me, that seems like a set-up for kind of what you are talking about with the bred-to-death dogs. I'm for fixing your pet but laws and licenses seem like Big Doggy Brother."

            I disagree with all of that and so do all the people I know in rescue and who work in animal shelters. Have you seen the list of groups that are supporting this bill? It's a who's who of animal rights.

            However, the OP wasn't asking about S&N laws. She was asking about puppy mills. I have been donating to www.puppymillrescue.com for several years and some other groups who fight puppymills. That's one more reason I know the value of mandatory S&N laws: having your own pet fixed will make sure it is of no value to someone who is capable of putting a dog in a cage and breeding it to death. If my dogs ever were stolen or got out of my yard somehow, I know they will not be "bred to death" because they cannot be bred at all.

            The laws push people to do things for their own protection that they do not have the sense to do for their animal companions’ protection.
            • Unsu...
               

              Re: Friends who buy purebreds

              Sat, July 28, 2007 - 12:45 AM
              Sorry, guys, I think we are more in agreement than you think.
              Perhaps I should take more exact care in my wording so I am not misunderstood.
              Well, OK, I will bow down from this group since you all think that I somehow have some opposing view to yours.
              We are in agreement. Sorry I'm not so good at the semantics and expressings my own opinion.
              PEACE
              • Unsu...
                 

                Re: Friends who buy purebreds

                Sat, July 28, 2007 - 2:30 AM
                I am a longtime PETA supporter and I have felt a lot of opposition from including my opinions - ready for conversation - in this tribe. I just joined recently and I am sorry to say that I feel like everyone who has responded to me has misunderstood what I am trying to say and are totally mean-spirited towards me. I feel like if you think that someone is misinformed, that you should KINDLY guide them toward the proper direction, not shoot them down and tell them how much you are in disagreement with them.

                I am not a troll, don't treat me like one, just because I haven't said what I mean in a "perfect" way.

                If someone joins the PETA tribe, God knows they SHOULD be supporters and have done a LITTLE research or JUST be able to express their own opinions to some like-minded folk, and/or be looking for some new and useful information, as am I.

                Why did I receive so much harsh judgement from people that I am supposedly to have have so much in common with?

                THIS, FOLKS, IS WHAT MOST "OUTSIDER" CAUSES SUFFER FROM. PEOPLE SEE US AS ANTAGONISTC REVOLUTIONARIES. Not being able to "identify with" or "communicate with" us is a HINDERANCE to OUR CAUSE.

                Let me TRY to be clear.

                OK, You're doing the "right thing"....You're in the "cool group". You've got it going on, baby. You are on the true and righteous path! RIGHT ON! But please DON'T shun the possible newcomer as "uninformed" WHEN IN ACTUALITY YOUR OWN GROUP IS BASED ON PEOPLE "THINKING OUTSIDE THE BOX." (Maybe I am stating opinions you think are "outside the box" but actually, I APOLOGIZE for my not exactly-perfect command of the english language that made you defensive and think I am somehow OPPOSED TO YOU!?)
                (I AM NOT!!)

                AND! IF I AM GOING TO JOIN A PETA.ORG TRIBE YOU SHOULD HOPEFULLY EXPECT THAT I HAVE THE BEST INTEREST OF ANIMALS AT HEART AND AM A VEGETARIAN, IF NOT VEGAN (!) AND IF I SAY SOMETHING YOU MAY MISUNDERSTAND ...PLEASE DON'T JUMP DOWN MY THROAT AND SCARE ME AWAY, JUST BECAUSE YOU MAY HAVE MISUNDERSTOOD ME, OR I MAY POSSIBLY BE "WORKING THROUGH" SOME THOUGHTS . (?)

                Ok, I am done yelling now, but honestly, I am pretty upset. I thought you were my people. I have always been involved in so -called "fringe" causes and "green" causes since BIRTH...(I was raised Vegan for the first 7 years of my life, have been Vegan from 20 to 26 years old, and now again from 36 on- ) so to have someone rip me "a new one" on a tribe that I thought was supposed to be like-minded just causes me total dismay.

                I was hoping this tribe was full of like-minded individuals hoping to break new ground and turn a lot of people onto this truly AWESOME way of life. Maybe it can be.

                I decided to leave this tribe but re-joined as a matter of fact and stubborness to give you all thought and grist for your mill. I AM NOT YOUR ENEMY. I CAME HERE FOR FOR COMISERATION AND KNOWLEDGE. PLEASE SHARE IT WITH ME KINDLY. (!)
                PERHAPS I AM TOO SENSITVE. THIS IS HOW I AM. I TREAT PEOPLE THE WAY I WISH TO BE TREATED...WITH KINDNESS AND UNDERSTANDING...AND PATIENCE.

                God Bless You All - I wish you No ill will. I am trying to make peace with my own feelings here and get along with you all, and make a positive change! I am on your side. I am not your enemy. Please accept me as I am, and look forward to what I can be! and let us help eachother through this life.

                Thank You,
                PEACE
                jenny
                • Re: Friends who buy purebreds

                  Sat, July 28, 2007 - 10:50 AM
                  Jenny, you said "I think it's just a shame that there has to be a law to make people follow common sense and avoid all the terrible things you listed" but that's why there are laws to force people to wear seat belts, and have their children (infants even) in car seats, and requirering motocycle helmets, etc. etc. People all over the place need to be required by law to do things they should have the sense to do anyway.

                  And if you think this was bad, you are new.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: Friends who buy purebreds

                    Sun, July 29, 2007 - 8:27 AM
                    yeah, you said you were against making it a law to fix your pets, and mdj said she was for it. maybe you didnt actually say you disagreed with it, just that you were apprehensive about it? i'm not 100% what you meant, that was just how i interpreted it. anyway, even so, you disagree, so what? that's why tribe exists :P if everyone agreed on every subject this would be a freakin boring place. just because someone is disagreeing with you doesnt mean they are attacking you.
                    • Unsu...
                       

                      Re: Friends who buy purebreds

                      Wed, August 1, 2007 - 3:29 AM
                      "just because someone is disagreeing with you doesn't mean they are attacking you"

                      Yes, this is true, indeed. But what if there is NO DISAGREEMENT and people still insist on "disagreeing" with you?
                      Then is that not an attack?
                      or a prod or poke at least?

                      THIS IS MY WHOLE POINT. WE ARE NOT IN DISAGREEMENT.
                      Therefore "disagreeing with me" is a futile cause.
                      We are agreeing! So why take an "opposing view" when I have not presented one?

                      And to be clear I am not "apprehensive or opposed" to "fixing". If you will read my posts again you may see that I am simply stating that I THINK IT'S A SHAME that people don't have enough common sense to do the right thing in general, without a government telling them what to do.

                      BTW - there are laws against all kinds of atrocious things and people still do them.

                      Perhaps I should have made my original statement thus:

                      In a perfect world the government would make all laws to protect it's humans and animals and land - and EVERYONE would happily abide by those laws.

                      My only comment was how much of a "shame" it is to seemingly have to have a (corrupt) government make a law to "scare" or oblige people to follow common sense & decency...and even if it's a law - some people will never follow it - no matter what!

                      There's laws against murder but that doesn't seem to stop some poeple. That was all my point was.

                      And once again. I took umbrage because two of you seemed to be disagreeing with me when in fact I am on your side and am FOR the law.

                      Hope this clears it all up.
                      • Unsu...
                         

                        Re: Friends who buy purebreds

                        Wed, August 1, 2007 - 3:34 AM
                        "And if you think this was bad, you are new."

                        Again, I am new to this tribe, yes you are correct! But I am not new to tribe in general, and definitly not new to Veganism or PETA.

                        Lo Siento Amigo! So Sorry, I did not realize this tribe was a BATTLEGROUND, not a safe place for conversation, comiseration, the sharing of positve ideas, and making this world a better place!

                        I'm begging you. Please understand what I am really saying here!

                        Peace.
                        • Re: Friends who buy purebreds

                          Wed, August 1, 2007 - 9:14 AM
                          You made these statements, did you not?

                          "To me, that seems like a set-up for kind of what you are talking about with the bred-to-death dogs. "
                          I DISAGREE WITH THAT.

                          You stated "but laws and licenses seem like Big Doggy Brother"
                          I DISAGREE WITH THAT.

                          "Bred to death dogs" are NOT the result of mandatory S&N laws. Such a statement is preposterous. People who don't know anything about how puppymills and pet stores run would take a statement like that and spread it to their likewise ignorant friends. That kind of statement could do damage.

                          Further, humans need laws to push then into doing costly or inconvenient things for the safety and well being of themselves, and their children, much less their animal companions. You want to know why I, personally wear a seat belt? Because it's the law. You can say it's a shame, but it's also reality.

                          I also still don' t understand why you even brought it up, when the OP was about pet stores and puppymills. Seeing as how you're really for the law and all.
                          • Unsu...
                             

                            Re: Friends who buy purebreds

                            Wed, August 1, 2007 - 6:50 PM
                            sigh
                            • Re: Friends who buy purebreds

                              Wed, August 1, 2007 - 7:03 PM
                              • Re: Friends who buy purebreds

                                Tue, August 21, 2007 - 7:18 PM

                                Jenny, you have a pit-bull like tenacity to try and make nice. I admire you, and I know what you are saying. I hate many crazy, overly paternal government laws too. Seatbelt laws, helmet laws, drug laws...
                                Big brother sucks.
                                We are both against animal breeding, AND "big brother".

                                I get you.

                                I've been out of town for a while, or I would have written much sooner.
                                • Unsu...
                                   

                                  Re: Friends who buy purebreds

                                  Wed, August 22, 2007 - 3:52 AM
                                  "I also still don' t understand why you even brought it up, when the OP was about pet stores and puppymills. Seeing as how you're really for the law and all."

                                  NO. I said I'm for fixing you pet. I never said I'm for laws from an outrageously corrupt government. Like they have anyone's best interest at heart...except their own.

                                  Sorry - it seems like this whole thing boils down to my SEVERE UNTRUST of our government. I should have just started with that statement. This whole topic runs much deeper for me. I have ALWAYS had my animal companions "fixed" and given them the best care I possibly could, no matter what the cost or "bother".

                                  Again, my whole problem with all of this was that I think it's horrible that some people can do terrible things without a crisis of conscience. (Yes, and thank you I am aware that I am living in "the real world" - it's just that I have layers of emotion and thought and I DO consider many sides of a problem and yes, even still mourn the fact that things aren't "right".

                                  AND like I said before - it doesn't matter what laws a government makes. Bad people will always be bad people and do what their own mind tells them is okay. Sorry, but that makes me sad. I'm an emotional, caring person, and I expect more from humankind.

                                  People who can afford the licensing will still conduct their business in any manner they see fit. Do you honestly think that the government is going to prosecute someone they are in bed with? I thought it just smacked of only rich people being able to do what they wish and the poorer, non-important or even "dangerously" free-thinking will be the sacrificial lambs.

                                  Our government, as a whole, (sure there are good people who are right-minded, but they are outrageously outnumbered and actually intertwined,) ...our government is CORRUPT! Therefore I tend to be completely suspicious whenever certains "laws" are made, I tend to wonder how many lobbyists from giant pet breeding companies and pet food companies, (Iams, anyone?) are all part of this "decision" to "help" animals. Please. I seriously doubt that the best interest of abused animals is REALLY at the heart of this law. It's all about control.

                                  I want to help animals. I do NOT trust our government to make things "right". We are already living in a police state. Our basic rights have been wiped out by the so-called "Patriot" act. They can do whatever they want. They don't even care about any of us, or our animal friends.

                                  God Bless.
                                  • Re: Friends who buy purebreds

                                    Wed, August 22, 2007 - 10:40 AM
                                    "NO. I said I'm for fixing you pet. I never said I'm for laws from an outrageously corrupt government. Like they have anyone's best interest at heart...except their own."

                                    "and pet food companies, (Iams, anyone?) are all part of this "decision" to "help" animals"

                                    You think Iams is behind this? Those are such an ignorant statements I don't know where to begin with them. I don't know what kind of bizzaro planet you live on, but we have laws to keep people from chaining their dogs to a pole in the sun without food or water, because people do exactly that. My former neighbors did it. To two of their dogs. The people who live next door to them, do it. the people who live up the street from them do. as well, but then again, I live right smack in the middle of the real world. Downtown real world, to be exact. Laws will make them stop because they fear being ticketed. They will say they can't afford a fence, until they find they can affored being ticketed and reticketed even less (and not have a fence to show for the money they've had to part with).

                                    Have you done any research on these laws? They were drafted with the wholehearted support of animal welfare groups (like PETA), who've been pushing for this for decades. The only idiots, lemme say that again, so you can hear clearly what I think, idiots who are against them are people who say they love animals, but by that mean the pretty ones that have owners and who don't have to deal with the hundreds of thousands who do not and are dragged, literally dragged sometimes to be euthanized (if they are lucky, shot, or gassed if they are not). Since you last posted to this thread, did you speak to people with animal welfare, animal rights, or animal rescue? Did you speak to anyone who works where those animals are killed to see what people on the front lines think?

                                    Have you spoken to any sociologists to see if studies, cold hard numbers support your theory? or are you just talking of of your ass? I think you are just talking out of your ass, Mostly because I've had a few sociology courses during my tenure as a psych major in college. Here's the shorthand: Folkways follow state ways. People, when polled, will say they are for or against a certain position before a law is changed, say abortion. In 1973 the majority of Americans were against abortion under any circumstances. Then Roe v Wade changed the law. Every year since the percentage of Americans against abortion dropped. The poetic thing is that in both polls (before and after) the people are asked if they formed their opinions because of the laws, or independently, purely using their own moral compass as their guide. They will say that they came to their opinions independently of the laws (they just coincidentally mirror the laws exactly). The same thing is true of seat belts, car seats, domestic violence, child beating, and law after law. If you really want, I'll dig up my text books and quote you studies, chapter and verse.

                                    Sorry, your severe distrust of the government is just exactly the kind of thing that dooms tens of thousands of animals to lives of misery. Sorry that your severe distrust of the government is more important to you than the welfare of innocent animals. I pray that lawmakers see your opinions and those of people like you for the ignorant statements that they are.
                                    • Re: Friends who buy purebreds

                                      Wed, August 22, 2007 - 10:46 AM
                                      Oops, I almost forgot...

                                      God bless,
                                      Maria de Jesus G.
                                      • Re: Friends who buy purebreds

                                        Fri, August 24, 2007 - 8:57 AM
                                        I was really just asking if anyone knew of some already printed information that would be handy to mail off to my unthinking friends. I had emailed PETA a long time ago about this and never got a reply.
                                        "MdJG", you have turned this thread into a hideous and unreasonable vendetta against Jenny because she does not excitedly LEAP into your freakish pigeon hole of good and evil.
                                        Too bad you don't just channel this psychotic anger and ill will towards someone who is NOT on the side of PETA.
                                        So keep on Firin' Away. I know that there are SOME people who always get a kick out of watching someone act socially retarded on these lists, and you have made for a damn fine show so far.
                                        Good job, Einstein...
                                        Jenny, this girl seems rabid and I think you are wasting your time trying to reason with her.

                                        SO, I guess there's no handy dandy pamphlets that have pictures of dead pound-puppies that give death statistics and extoll the virtues of adoption and "fixing"?
                                        Or, maybe some less frightening mailer that still might make someone think twice about buying a $350 Shi-tzu? Am I just gonna have to learn how to do Desk-Top publishing or something?

                                        Constance




                                        • Re: Friends who buy purebreds

                                          Fri, August 24, 2007 - 12:16 PM
                                          Constance, which part of this did you not understand?

                                          "Re: Friends who buy purebreds
                                          Thu, July 26, 2007 - 9:39 PM
                                          in response to: Re: Friends who buy purebreds

                                          Sorry, thats

                                          www.prisonersofgreed.org
                                          www.puppymillrescue.com"

                                          I posted that, genius. Jenny's only contribution was to bring up and then rabidly harp on S&N laws that you did not ask about. Then she sent me a message off list and I thought we'd come to an understanding when you came back to stir up her shit again and she jumped right in the muck with you ranting about the government. Now you want to accuse ME of being the one who's unreasonable?

                                          Bullshit.

                                          Oh, and you're welcome.
                                          • Unsu...
                                             

                                            Re: Friends who buy purebreds

                                            Fri, August 24, 2007 - 2:24 PM
                                            You thought we had "come to an understandingt"? You were still being harsh and sarcastic toward me in the pm's we exchanged when all I am trying to do is explain my opinion, and try to come to an understanding. You keep trying to put words into my mouth. I never said I would try and STOP a law - and as I said before I'm for fixing. Don't get confused.

                                            AND your relentless attacks on me questioning my ability to think and comprehend, what planet I am living on and the input from the other guy that you "don't like me" are just so middle school I think I'm having a flashback. Why don't you like me? We have never met. We know nothing about eachother. I thought we were having conversations and trying to understand eachother and reach a greater good on this tribe but you just seem to want to put me down at every turn. Why so hostile? I guess that's just your way. Well then so be it.

                                            YEAH, actually I do think this will be my last post on this tribe after all because you are just so mean and confrontational and I have better things to do with my time than try to reason with someone who has already made up her mind that everyone else is an idiot and she is the first and last word on EVERYTHING. There's NO room for me to chime in with that kind of aggression.

                                            OH & BTW...I think it's awesome that you post your IQ on your page, and in another thread told the story of how you used to eat meat in front of your Vegan friend just to fuck with her, and then you mock my belief in God and my religion when I was truly trying to send blessings your way. You seem to enjoy hurting people. Must be very lonely to be you. I will pray that God opens your heart and you can enjoy life more.
                                            • Re: Friends who buy purebreds

                                              Fri, August 24, 2007 - 6:58 PM
                                              Just to refreshe your memory Jenny, here is your last private massage to me (and the last one in our exchange as I did not reply):

                                              " Date Thu, August 2, 2007 - 10:19 AM
                                              Subject Re: Why do you want to keep fighting me?
                                              Message
                                              MdJGOk, Damn! I just wrote a very nice reply to you and there was some error in sending so I will try again! :)

                                              I'm glad you have NOT posted "Jenny, you are an asshole!"
                                              Honestly, it's funny now to think of that, but it really would hurt my feelings!

                                              I feel like since God has thrust us upon eachother so many times that htere has to be a deeper thing happening than just some "disagreement".

                                              I think that in the "real world" we could probably be GREAT friends and encourage much wonderful discouse. It's sometimes hard to get across what you really feel on the internet!

                                              I TRULY feel like GOD has put us together for a great reason. I am open to this. I am open to being your friend, I am open to having stimulating conversation. I am opem to YOU in general.

                                              God is practicaly forcing us to meet and interact, so why fight it?

                                              I come to you with open arms and an open mind. I am ready to learn all that you have to teach me, and I hope I can also teach you something in return.

                                              PEACE & BLESSINGS to You !
                                              jenny:)"


                                              Sounded like we came to an understanding. Now, here we are again. So, if God brought us together, maybe it's so that I can call you an asshole.
                                              • Re: Friends who buy purebreds

                                                Fri, August 24, 2007 - 11:12 PM
                                                Okay, before acussing someone of being rabid and psychotic take the time to read their other posts and read a bit about them.
                                                Constance the information that you requested was provided to you BY MDJGutie! so ...?
                                                talk about biting the hand that feeds you.
                                                <sigh>

                                                I understand how it may appear like splitting hairs to you Jenny, but in fact i think that is EXAVTLY why MdJgutie is getting so frustrated...when you say that you don't want laws against breeders (and in fact don;t even want laws to regulate breeders!) and then claim that you are against the pet animal population and for spay an neuter, don't you see?

                                                it's like saying that you want to open up0 more rape crisis centers but don't want to make raping illegal.

                                                Jenny cares deeply for the animals and is a source of knwoledge and wisdom, instead of trying to prove that God brought you together (which buy the way not only demonstrates incredible self-importance, implying that MdJGutie exists only to somehow be a test for you, but also demonstrates and incredibly poor understanding of theology) and trying to distort MdJgutie's intelligence into attacks, why not pay attention to what she is trying to express and be open to learn.

                                                It is great that you support PETA and it is wonderful that you see the problem of pet animal populations, but try to not only follow PETA but understand what PETA is about as well...perhaps try to understand ANIMAL RIGHTS and the fact that spay and neuter programs are fantastic and necessary but only treating the symptom, and not the illness...the first step is laws to regulate breeders, the second step is the abolition of all breeding of animals for profit, and the dismantling of the whole pure bred culture (including dog shows, kennel clubs, and all that)

                                                and throughout all that we need mandatory spay and neuter programs reagrdless of breed pure or not.

                                                Jenny we are really all on the same side, but instead of seeing attacks, try to see all the information.

                                                Constance good luck with those pamphlets, we just recently held a big demo to raise funds for a low-cost spay and neuter program here in Toronto, and we also gave out those "Beware the pet shops" pamphlets, they are very effective.

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